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Not sure how many of you are moms (are any of you moms?) but putting this out there, just in case, because I lately find myself caught between a rock (my cell phone) and a hard place (an outgoing text question to no one), in pursuit of either validation that the motions of toddlerdom I’m rowing through are not isolated incidents endemic to me or advice in the event that they are. I don’t know why I feel both self-conscious about my parenting style and the way my kids are evolving and self-righteous (or less cynically, guarded) about pursuing advice as such.
Actually, I think I got it: I don’t want to be judged! For finding myself oscillating between trying to teach my kids how to be people in the world while maintaining acknowledgment that I’m v much not trying to like, stifle or emotionally beat down their primal, basic senses of gorgeous and colorful self. So there’s that. Self-doubt.
On my mind in spite of it: my kids don’t play with other kids. Maybe it’s a twin thing? Is this is a thing they’ll phase out of? Something I have to DO something about? Part of me is like: I am socially uncomfortable in new environments, too, and if I had a built in sidekick, I wouldn’t stray too far either but then the other part of me is like: remember what Harry Nilsson sang? Two can be as bad as one.
You know? Or no?
What’s going on with you and your kids??? Let’s use this place — THE MOM THREAD — to talk, if you’re up to it!
One of my beefs with the way we are trained to think about motherhood is that mothers are somehow expected (by others but more importantly by themselves) to be finished human beings fully capable of effortlessly guiding these brand unique new human strangers - who on their best days are the apple of our eye and on the worst days hold a mirror up to parts of ourselves that we haven't had the vantage point to be annoyed by - toward their best iterations, instead of expecting that these brand new unique human strangers are potentially joining us somewhere along the road of eventual, continuous, so-slow-you-don't-know-it's-happening expansion of our personal understandings of our selves and others. But most importantly, I think the effort and attention it takes to recognize and explore and honor your kids habits and preferences is, in and of itself, good parenting, and indicative of their living in a space that is safe enough for them to grow (or not!), and that is above all what matters.
But mom to mom, we all owe each other a lot more grace and a lot less judgement.
I am 45 and a twin! My parents always separated us when we got to school, which was probably to our advantage. We made plenty of friends over the years and our twindom did not hold us back socially. However, my twin is still my favorite person and we talk on the phone at least once a day. I honestly feel sorry for people who are not twins:) The bond is something that is so hard to explain. You always have someone on your side, someone you can look at and have a conversation with in total silence. This is not something you need to worry about! Your girls are going to be fine, just put them in separate classrooms in Kindergarten and see how it goes!!
From the POV of having a 24 year old son, I wish I would have spent less time worrying about him and more time talking with emotionally healthy parents who had grown children. Talking with parents my age accelerated my worry.
Highly recommend Dr Beckys IG and podcast “Good Inside” for rethinking what it means for our kids to be shy vs confident! It helped me so much. Also she suggests any time you think “Is this normal?” To shift your thinking instead to “what is going on for my kid right now and what do they need from me?” I have a hard time with this but it at least made me catch myself when I start going down the “is this normal?” road!
My son is not a twin, but until pretty recently (he's 6 now) he didn't play with a lot of other kids. He likes to wild out and is deeply interested in stuff that other kids his age weren't or at least not at the level he was, so he did his own thing. I would get so in my head about it, like is he happy? Is he gonna be a loner weird kid who talks about bugs all day? What I figured out was that all that stuff came from me and my insecurities and I was just projecting them onto him. He's wild happy and he does talk about bugs a lot but kids are into it, and his knowledge, and his fearlessness. They end up finding their way, we just have to stay out of it, as hard as that is. xx
I'm a mom of an almost 3 year old. My approach is to trust her, and let go of fear and worry, which is really, really hard work on my part! But every time I do, it just works better for us. I'm not sure we need to fully understand why kids do what they do (unless it's self-harming and they need real professional help), I just think they need space where no matter what they do or feel, they're safe and accepted. So I'm trying to create that space for my daughter, let go of the worry because I'm pretty sure if she feels loved and accepted at home, she'll turn out ok in the world. I then write down all my fears and worries down in a journal because that helps me process them. Really, it's impossible to let go of it all together! I think all kids do things that us adults think are weird or worrying, but I try to let go of those thoughts and just trust that the child will do what they need to do when they're ready to do it. Also, I love Janet Lansbury, she has helped me keep sane during what is an insane time: toddler years. https://www.janetlansbury.com/
I’m a mom of fraternal twins, who are 5 right now. I have an older son who is 7 and I have the pleasure of knowing for a short time what it’s like to have one kid, what it’s like to have 3, what it’s like to have twins. Something I can heavily relate to, is your emotional response to wanting help/not wanting help and the insecure feeelings mothers feel. I think that gets compacted when your have twins. I don’t want someone’s idea or perspective of how I should be doing things if they don’t have twins. I also feel sub par when someone does have twins and they give me advice. Asking for help isn’t a strong suit of mine (I’m working on it). The toddler twin phase is a rough one and from my limited experience, as they get older and subjugated to more experiences they can start to form their own selves and be confident about it. It’s delicate though-in preschool we hade them put in separate classes to help facilitate it. In kindergarten they’re back in the same class and it’s going ok. As for all parents right now, I think it’s important to remember the impact of raising kids in a pandemic, it’s another ball game and we weren’t meant to do it like this sometimes this macro awareness can give me grace, as long as I don’t use it as an excuse to be a prick. From a twin mom, you’re not alone-it’s really fucking hard.
Parallel play is really the goal for their age which, as twins, they do a lot of! And within the context of Covid, they are probably really adept at entertaining themselves as a unit. Associative play comes in a little bit later, around 4-5. And anyway all of these markers are generalized and will depend on their unique temperament. I love the idea of this thread, but you’re right to be guarded around the advice that you seek. Lot’s of uneducated conviction out there based on anecdotal evidence. Sending love to all! - Marcella
Quick Q-working mom of a one-year-old who does NOT SLEEP. Do you ever feel OK again? Like do your body and mind ever feel OK again? Do you ever get to the point of feeling like every minute of every day is not a relentless uphill climb? Have fruitlessly googled this many times.
I have a 3 year old daughter and she doesn’t play with other kids either. I go back and forth between worrying about it (self-conscious) and thinking it’s totally fine (self-righteous). We just started her in preschool and I hope that’s the best thing for her, to start observing more social interactions and getting in there herself! Just this morning before drop-off she said out of nowhere “I don’t want to play”. Knowing her, this means she’s feeling pressure to play with other kids when she truly doesn’t want to. And I hate that she feels that pressure. I think it’s amazing your girls have each other and I think you’re probably the type of person to let them have that, and let them grow / play with others in time. That’s what I’ll do I guess. Who knows, it’s a cross-your-fingers type thing isn’t it? I often say “why do we do this to ourselves?!” … have children, that is. It’s so beautiful and painful and heartwarming and heart wrenching.
My thing as a parent was to try to never to fall into the “should/must” territory; as in, “The kid must do this…the kid should do that.” I was always very aware to try to love fully, that everything is temporary and to try to stay present (which is WAY harder than typing that sentence). It is an extremely confronting and difficult gig. You will be OK - the fact that you're acknowledging this stuff is fantastic.
I stumbled on your substack through Instagram a couple days ago. Spent the past hour or so reading a handful of your writings. I never read MR so this is my first introduction to your POV. Anyways, your letter to the girls for their 3rd birthday was so beautiful and raw to read. And I recall you mentioned there too that you will always be by their side to observe and stand by who they are and who they are becoming. One step in front of the other in the climb. So there’s your own wisdom—which was also light and wisdom for me, thank you! As for myself, my life became all the more mystical and spiritual, playful and metaphorical when Rain, my son, was born. He just turned 3 in august. I’m also pregnant with the second babe so getting lots of creation symbols in the life these days—and lately, I’ve really felt like we are all floating in a womb of creation every single moment. What I mean is that this very natural, very tough place you find yourself in/feeling is like a current of water. I thought of how my baby inside is currently (current, currently —interesting!) experiencing “the waters”. Through her developing nervous system she probably notices when a “womb current” gets uncomfortable, which it must at times. And the only thing I can imagine her doing, coming into the experience of a body and her humanity, is change position slightly. She has no one to compare herself to, no reference for life lived. She can only be in the current until it passes. And so do we experience the same currents of life—whether we choose to experience them or not. And perhaps all we are meant to do at times is be more like a fetus in the womb (a little humorous and so simple). Maybe the only thing you’re meant to do is change position, find a way to get more comfortable with this feeling, in order to know it, experience it, see how it alchemises or transforms when it has your attention. There’s really no problem to solve or more to do from there. No “other” to compare yourself to—as hard as it is to let go of the conditions life has engrained on our minds, esp as mothers in the matrix of modern society. Maybe we just have to notice the currents that creation is setting up for us through life and motherhood. Get curious about them, and for you—even call upon those terrific parts of your character to celebrate and put them in a light that sparks laughter and wisdom, intrigue and style. I don’t know you but that’s what I get from your work. Use your gifts to experience these feelings coming up for you. I’m coming to think that through our children especially, we are only ever experiencing ourselves. They bring up the right-kind-of-hard that we can choose to repel or choose to ease into and simply get curious about. As for the girls, like all of us, they are in their process of blossoming into the flowers they will be in this world. Some periods have storms (is this a storm for them or only for you? And how does your holding that storm influence or inspire them?) but those storms are so necessary for the blossoming, the growth — and only creation and life knows what that blossoming is. One step at a time on the climb, to call in what you wrote again. Anyways, continue to observe as you do. Celebrate, write, express. Be you. Be mother. This is all so miraculous and great and hard. And thank you for sharing your POV and life so openly through your writing. I personally haven’t made that jump to expressing in the world so prolifically yet but I feel myself getting closer. (Even writing this comment is one step closer ) :) - Paulina
I was just at the park yesterday with my almost 2 year old and she noticed that her friends from school were there, because I planned it with the moms, she wouldn’t even acknowledge them. At home, she is so bubbly with our 3 year old… like a clown and so fun. I think they find comfort in their siblings to be themselves, easier. After a string cheese, Eleanor ended up playing with a friend so I wasn’t as worried but she wasn’t as friendly as I thought. So much to learn. Gotta just let them be!
My twins have a similar dynamic. They're 3 and a half, so similar age and they aren't all that interested in making friends with other kids. The social dynamic of the newborn and early years stages with twins is definitely different and I'm sure this has an impact both on how they see themselves as individuals and also what makes them happy. I read something once about twins being more interested in validation from each other than from a parent or peer. I think of this often when I see them in social situations.
Right now they seem content, so I'm good with that. Creeping mum doubt makes me worry about how they'll be in the future, but I trust in their relationship - they're the experts - so they'll figure it out.
None of my 3 kids ever really “played” with other kids until the were about 3 1/2 - until then they would play around other kids, or with the toys of other kids, but didn’t show much interest in the kids themselves. Then they get older and other people became more interesting - but I could well imagine that would take longer if you had a ready made playmate to begin with.
I can’t even imagine how heavy the weight of the responsibility is to teach your kids how to be people in the world - but I suppose I’ll have to experience it myself in a few years once my bb is a toddler!
Quick q from a first time mom (due December): What is the most worthwhile investment item you made for your newborn? More than the brand or specs, I’m curious to know what personally made the item highly valuable to you/your lifestyle/newborn routine.
Living in a different country, it could be a cultural difference - but for all 3 of my kids I actually part-time worked at making sure that they expand their social circles. Starting at the age of 4 which was usually where they started expressing an interest or when other moms would start asking us to join playdates.
I would make it a point to talk to them about their friends - asking them who they'd like to invite over, who they play with at preschool, who their friends were, etc. - as I think the more they hear me talk about it, the more it makes them think about these things as top of mind (and it also ensures that I'm not pushing them into interactions with kids that they're less "into").
I was definitely on the initiating side of things with other moms and it was great, as usually I'd have a group of similarly minded moms to talk to and consult with.
I was just tapping in my answer to this yesterday afternoon, telling you why I was here in the first place, that I’d been following you ever since your twins were born purely for that and an interest in fashion - Simultaneously eyeing up this vintage patent shoe on EBay (see Carel) - so I was writing about how my girls only ever work as a team and never formed separate friendships. They’re mostly happy and sociable little people, look out for those who need help, feel strongly about fairness (definitely a twin thing) but I have often wondered whether I’ve failed to help them to find friends. What I generally learned though in my eleven years with them is that I cannot control what they becoming and yes, setting an example (good and bad!) often has a bigger impact than telling and teaching them stuff. Now Covid came upon us and we were literally a trio for 5 months all day every day (poor Daddy didn’t always feel part of the gang) and so the twins relied more heavily than ever on each other (and me). I was alarmed then when their school report mentioned how they’re not reaching out to other children but knew that this could also just be down to them not being allowed to go to school here for most of last term (Germany).
So to get back to the beginning, my kids got home from school just as I was beginning to comment here, I put my phone down to hear about their day and what they burst out with walking through the door was “Mama, we ( note WE) have a new friend, no BEST friend (one twin corrects the other), please can she come over next week?”
My friend has twins. Sie sais thanks god, because now she knows whatever they are behaving it is Not her Responsability. 2 boys are as different as day and night. One is glad and another is angry in the same time. She came to conclusion, it is Not depending on her, how they feel. Its Individual and you can Not please 2 of them in the same way, you are only 1 Person. That takes a Lot of pressure from you when you realize they are indipendent human being.
I have a daughter of 8 which i seldom have an overview what is going on and a son of 6 and this is a little copy of myself- very easy to See through!
Conclusione : Set the Limits of no gos and rules which work always for both and the Rest you let it Happen.
I have two. A 7 year old and a 2.5 year old. I had my 7yr old when I was 25 and still single. I took him everywhere with me (I still do.). He was surrounded by adults (pseudo adults because who is an adult at 25? Not me...). To this day he still doesn’t really like kids his age. He can’t be bothered and thinks he is beyond them. In his defense he is and I was very much like this as a child. I just worry he is too worried about being grown and not worried enough about just being.
Mum of a 25-year old boy here. My anxiety was so bad as a young mother I never joined in with any other mothers during his school years. I rarely organised play dates and avoided other parents, that weren't already my friends like the plague. My son turned 25 yesterday and I have to say he is one of the most well adjusted, self-aware, caring human beings I know. He has loads of friends and a very big community spirit. I say don't sweat it- let it happen or not happen, it will all be OK.
Don’t worry!!! I think what your girls have is really precious - each other AND pretty terrific seeming parents too. Remember, you only need to be a good enough parent, and you’re already exceeding that. Keep going! Sent with love from a mum of three (good enough) grown up kids xx
My son has a best friend who is a year younger than him and they would follow each other everywhere and only play with each other at nursery. I think he found in her what your twins have, someone who you really like and who is always there to play with. She made him more confident and responsible, less shy - he would come out of his shell because he felt comfortable around her, and they would really look out for each other. Now they have been split as he has started a school. He is struggling without her and it’s breaking my heart, but I’m sure he’ll get better at playing with others as he gets older. It’s nice to hear others with older kids to say “don’t worry, it will work out” so that’s what I’m going with for now.
My husband is a twin. He and his brother were inseparable until they reached an age of understanding that they didn’t come as a unit. There was a lightbulb moment when they disagreed and went off to find other playmates. Wondering if your girls see themselves as a unit still and cannot conceive of separateness rn?
always good to encourage our kids to get outside of their comfort zone, but whatever you do, don't worry this phase away. It's beautiful and you will miss it (slash) be so thankful for it! My youngest used to scowl at kids or adults that would try to talk to her - all she needed was her siblings and parents. Now that she's in first grade, we hardly go anywhere without her asking if she can invite a friend! xo
My girls 5 and 7 don’t play with other kids. I often find myself forcing them to do so and then give up!! My 7 year old would rather have an imaginary horse 🐎 that she would take to school and be with that horse. 😳Once she is comfortable with her environment she manages chatting with one or two kids. I also found out that my kids are pretty okay being just themselves. Maybe that’s not always a bad thing. So I have learnt to let them be and do their thing. I guess I am learning the process of Being 😂 I think you are fabulous !!! Your kids are the most adorable
as a mom of 2 girls, I will tell you that the younger one ABSOLUTELY only wanted to be with her sister until she was about 7. she's 9 now and has a good group of friends that she loves, but her 13 yr old sister is still her "best friend" and the 9 yr old is hers and i'm pretty sure it will always be that way. i'm okay with that. :)
I don't think you should worry about them playing with other kids. Do you ever hang out with them separately? Maybe they would be more inclined to step out if the other twin was not there.
My daughter is 9 and beginning puberty, let's just say I'm not quite ready for all of this. My latest google search was 'clean romance novels', she is loving relationship drama and talking about boys. It's never dull and a learning experience for both of us. Trust that you are being the best mother you can be and take time for self care, hugs : )
Hey hey fellow mamas! I do not have twins, but I do have a mom friend that does have twins that are 5 and they stick to each other like glue! I think they will eventually gradually branch out but for their elementary years they’ll stick together! And hang on through toddlerdom! It’s rough and sometimes I don’t know how I got through it (mine are 6 & 7 now) and fight constantly!! Someone please tell me this fighting and bickering phase will end. Also my oldest will NOT pass clothing down to her sister. And can you imagine? I don’t remember it from my own sister but having to let go of your favorite clothes only to see them worn gleefully by your sister? Hard stuff, pain in the effin ass for me, but I also would be traumatized 🤣
As a twin with an identical twin sister and I went on to have a set of non identical boy twins now aged 12 and my twin sister went on to have a set of identical twin girls (I know what are the chances of that?) it’s a Twin thing and an age thing , as your children grow older , explore the world , mature, form relationships with others .
You also as a mother grow to be a mother and with a lot of affirmations ‘I am a good enough parent ‘ all shall be well. It’s a tough time being in the midst of it but once you get past this stage you wonder why you didn’t enjoy it more or relaxed into it and had let anxiety eat you up. My twin nieces have spent a quarter of their lives living through a pandemic - they are closer as they were not allowed out to make friend or play outside so there’s also that thrown into the mix !
So you know - My twin sister and I were in the same class at school between age 5-11 but then were separated during High school. My twins boys have had the same experience and now have a bigger friendship circle Xxx
I have friends with twins & triplets. They all start playing with other kids as they get to elementary school. But love hanging with their sibling the most . The set of twins go to the same university and are roommates.
My kids are all singletons. 21, 19 and 15.
This topic is definitely one to be had over a cocktail or 3 hour long coffee break lol
Your girls are in a developmentally appropriate stage of interaction called parallel play. At their age it is perfectly normal for them to play next to but not with others. They are probably interested in what those kids are doing but more interested in their own play. I believe that it’s around 3/4 that children become more engaged in games and play as adults think of it. In fact, parallel play is important for learning independence and observation skills. In other words, they are right where they are meant to be. Bravo, mom!
I have one of 8 and one of 7, she and he, they're so partners that hardly go out and play with friends. And she has this -difficult for me- way that she always prefers one friend rather than 2 o more. This couple only dynamic girlfriend habit is the thing I honestly dont like that much because I can see its difficult for her when there are more girls. And at the same time, sometimes its inevitable to compare myself to her and that makes me feel a bit bad. Conclusion: I struggle everyday with my own believes and manners in trying not to define my kids as i am or as I learned to be. Everyone is unique, our children too. Let us be patient and wait for their own times and needs. At least, thats what I need.
I have 8 year old twins and they didn’t really play with other kids until they were 4ish. Now they are very social and have friends, but also still like to spend time with each other. I think this past year has been hard for all kids, so the fact that they go to their person to play with is totally normal. Also every kid is different so while you seek advice remember, it’s really not one size fits all and your kids are probably totally normal and coming into their own at their own pace.
I also feel lots of judgment as a mother of three, 2 are twins, like there is always someone watching, and in addition to my choices having to please me, my spouse and my kids and parents, this judgement eye also has to approve. Sometimes it feels like I care even more about the judgement eye. Why do I feel that? Is it just paranoia? I think it’s actually there on some level. Why is it there?
It sounds like you're honoring who your kiddos are as people (I have a very energetic but shy little guy). There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's a societal expectation that everyone has to be super duper social. As long as they find support navigating social scenarios if/when they want it sounds like you're being a great parent.
Kids usually don’t socialise together until they are 3. They may play in the same room but watch them and they are all playing separately. So seems totally normal
In my experience smaller kids tend to play in the proximity of other kids, but on their own agenda, rather than actually 'with' them. As for being a twin - imagine having someone as in tune with your play-based objectives as you are!
Maybe the other kids aren’t that interesting? I don’t have twins but I have 2 boys 15 months apart and a girl 2 years younger than my youngest son. They are all grown up now, but I remember when they were little, someone had to offer something that harmonized with their trio or brought an edge they liked, or else they had no interest. They’re successful adult humans with loads of friends and they had each a very deeply bonded best friend when they were little that they kept throughout childhood. So, maybe it is a twin thing and also maybe they have a high bar for who gets to share their time. ❤️
One of my beefs with the way we are trained to think about motherhood is that mothers are somehow expected (by others but more importantly by themselves) to be finished human beings fully capable of effortlessly guiding these brand unique new human strangers - who on their best days are the apple of our eye and on the worst days hold a mirror up to parts of ourselves that we haven't had the vantage point to be annoyed by - toward their best iterations, instead of expecting that these brand new unique human strangers are potentially joining us somewhere along the road of eventual, continuous, so-slow-you-don't-know-it's-happening expansion of our personal understandings of our selves and others. But most importantly, I think the effort and attention it takes to recognize and explore and honor your kids habits and preferences is, in and of itself, good parenting, and indicative of their living in a space that is safe enough for them to grow (or not!), and that is above all what matters.
But mom to mom, we all owe each other a lot more grace and a lot less judgement.
I am 45 and a twin! My parents always separated us when we got to school, which was probably to our advantage. We made plenty of friends over the years and our twindom did not hold us back socially. However, my twin is still my favorite person and we talk on the phone at least once a day. I honestly feel sorry for people who are not twins:) The bond is something that is so hard to explain. You always have someone on your side, someone you can look at and have a conversation with in total silence. This is not something you need to worry about! Your girls are going to be fine, just put them in separate classrooms in Kindergarten and see how it goes!!
From the POV of having a 24 year old son, I wish I would have spent less time worrying about him and more time talking with emotionally healthy parents who had grown children. Talking with parents my age accelerated my worry.
Highly recommend Dr Beckys IG and podcast “Good Inside” for rethinking what it means for our kids to be shy vs confident! It helped me so much. Also she suggests any time you think “Is this normal?” To shift your thinking instead to “what is going on for my kid right now and what do they need from me?” I have a hard time with this but it at least made me catch myself when I start going down the “is this normal?” road!
My son is not a twin, but until pretty recently (he's 6 now) he didn't play with a lot of other kids. He likes to wild out and is deeply interested in stuff that other kids his age weren't or at least not at the level he was, so he did his own thing. I would get so in my head about it, like is he happy? Is he gonna be a loner weird kid who talks about bugs all day? What I figured out was that all that stuff came from me and my insecurities and I was just projecting them onto him. He's wild happy and he does talk about bugs a lot but kids are into it, and his knowledge, and his fearlessness. They end up finding their way, we just have to stay out of it, as hard as that is. xx
I'm a mom of an almost 3 year old. My approach is to trust her, and let go of fear and worry, which is really, really hard work on my part! But every time I do, it just works better for us. I'm not sure we need to fully understand why kids do what they do (unless it's self-harming and they need real professional help), I just think they need space where no matter what they do or feel, they're safe and accepted. So I'm trying to create that space for my daughter, let go of the worry because I'm pretty sure if she feels loved and accepted at home, she'll turn out ok in the world. I then write down all my fears and worries down in a journal because that helps me process them. Really, it's impossible to let go of it all together! I think all kids do things that us adults think are weird or worrying, but I try to let go of those thoughts and just trust that the child will do what they need to do when they're ready to do it. Also, I love Janet Lansbury, she has helped me keep sane during what is an insane time: toddler years. https://www.janetlansbury.com/
I’m a mom of fraternal twins, who are 5 right now. I have an older son who is 7 and I have the pleasure of knowing for a short time what it’s like to have one kid, what it’s like to have 3, what it’s like to have twins. Something I can heavily relate to, is your emotional response to wanting help/not wanting help and the insecure feeelings mothers feel. I think that gets compacted when your have twins. I don’t want someone’s idea or perspective of how I should be doing things if they don’t have twins. I also feel sub par when someone does have twins and they give me advice. Asking for help isn’t a strong suit of mine (I’m working on it). The toddler twin phase is a rough one and from my limited experience, as they get older and subjugated to more experiences they can start to form their own selves and be confident about it. It’s delicate though-in preschool we hade them put in separate classes to help facilitate it. In kindergarten they’re back in the same class and it’s going ok. As for all parents right now, I think it’s important to remember the impact of raising kids in a pandemic, it’s another ball game and we weren’t meant to do it like this sometimes this macro awareness can give me grace, as long as I don’t use it as an excuse to be a prick. From a twin mom, you’re not alone-it’s really fucking hard.
Parallel play is really the goal for their age which, as twins, they do a lot of! And within the context of Covid, they are probably really adept at entertaining themselves as a unit. Associative play comes in a little bit later, around 4-5. And anyway all of these markers are generalized and will depend on their unique temperament. I love the idea of this thread, but you’re right to be guarded around the advice that you seek. Lot’s of uneducated conviction out there based on anecdotal evidence. Sending love to all! - Marcella
Quick Q-working mom of a one-year-old who does NOT SLEEP. Do you ever feel OK again? Like do your body and mind ever feel OK again? Do you ever get to the point of feeling like every minute of every day is not a relentless uphill climb? Have fruitlessly googled this many times.
I have a 3 year old daughter and she doesn’t play with other kids either. I go back and forth between worrying about it (self-conscious) and thinking it’s totally fine (self-righteous). We just started her in preschool and I hope that’s the best thing for her, to start observing more social interactions and getting in there herself! Just this morning before drop-off she said out of nowhere “I don’t want to play”. Knowing her, this means she’s feeling pressure to play with other kids when she truly doesn’t want to. And I hate that she feels that pressure. I think it’s amazing your girls have each other and I think you’re probably the type of person to let them have that, and let them grow / play with others in time. That’s what I’ll do I guess. Who knows, it’s a cross-your-fingers type thing isn’t it? I often say “why do we do this to ourselves?!” … have children, that is. It’s so beautiful and painful and heartwarming and heart wrenching.
My thing as a parent was to try to never to fall into the “should/must” territory; as in, “The kid must do this…the kid should do that.” I was always very aware to try to love fully, that everything is temporary and to try to stay present (which is WAY harder than typing that sentence). It is an extremely confronting and difficult gig. You will be OK - the fact that you're acknowledging this stuff is fantastic.
I stumbled on your substack through Instagram a couple days ago. Spent the past hour or so reading a handful of your writings. I never read MR so this is my first introduction to your POV. Anyways, your letter to the girls for their 3rd birthday was so beautiful and raw to read. And I recall you mentioned there too that you will always be by their side to observe and stand by who they are and who they are becoming. One step in front of the other in the climb. So there’s your own wisdom—which was also light and wisdom for me, thank you! As for myself, my life became all the more mystical and spiritual, playful and metaphorical when Rain, my son, was born. He just turned 3 in august. I’m also pregnant with the second babe so getting lots of creation symbols in the life these days—and lately, I’ve really felt like we are all floating in a womb of creation every single moment. What I mean is that this very natural, very tough place you find yourself in/feeling is like a current of water. I thought of how my baby inside is currently (current, currently —interesting!) experiencing “the waters”. Through her developing nervous system she probably notices when a “womb current” gets uncomfortable, which it must at times. And the only thing I can imagine her doing, coming into the experience of a body and her humanity, is change position slightly. She has no one to compare herself to, no reference for life lived. She can only be in the current until it passes. And so do we experience the same currents of life—whether we choose to experience them or not. And perhaps all we are meant to do at times is be more like a fetus in the womb (a little humorous and so simple). Maybe the only thing you’re meant to do is change position, find a way to get more comfortable with this feeling, in order to know it, experience it, see how it alchemises or transforms when it has your attention. There’s really no problem to solve or more to do from there. No “other” to compare yourself to—as hard as it is to let go of the conditions life has engrained on our minds, esp as mothers in the matrix of modern society. Maybe we just have to notice the currents that creation is setting up for us through life and motherhood. Get curious about them, and for you—even call upon those terrific parts of your character to celebrate and put them in a light that sparks laughter and wisdom, intrigue and style. I don’t know you but that’s what I get from your work. Use your gifts to experience these feelings coming up for you. I’m coming to think that through our children especially, we are only ever experiencing ourselves. They bring up the right-kind-of-hard that we can choose to repel or choose to ease into and simply get curious about. As for the girls, like all of us, they are in their process of blossoming into the flowers they will be in this world. Some periods have storms (is this a storm for them or only for you? And how does your holding that storm influence or inspire them?) but those storms are so necessary for the blossoming, the growth — and only creation and life knows what that blossoming is. One step at a time on the climb, to call in what you wrote again. Anyways, continue to observe as you do. Celebrate, write, express. Be you. Be mother. This is all so miraculous and great and hard. And thank you for sharing your POV and life so openly through your writing. I personally haven’t made that jump to expressing in the world so prolifically yet but I feel myself getting closer. (Even writing this comment is one step closer ) :) - Paulina
I was just at the park yesterday with my almost 2 year old and she noticed that her friends from school were there, because I planned it with the moms, she wouldn’t even acknowledge them. At home, she is so bubbly with our 3 year old… like a clown and so fun. I think they find comfort in their siblings to be themselves, easier. After a string cheese, Eleanor ended up playing with a friend so I wasn’t as worried but she wasn’t as friendly as I thought. So much to learn. Gotta just let them be!
My twins have a similar dynamic. They're 3 and a half, so similar age and they aren't all that interested in making friends with other kids. The social dynamic of the newborn and early years stages with twins is definitely different and I'm sure this has an impact both on how they see themselves as individuals and also what makes them happy. I read something once about twins being more interested in validation from each other than from a parent or peer. I think of this often when I see them in social situations.
Right now they seem content, so I'm good with that. Creeping mum doubt makes me worry about how they'll be in the future, but I trust in their relationship - they're the experts - so they'll figure it out.
None of my 3 kids ever really “played” with other kids until the were about 3 1/2 - until then they would play around other kids, or with the toys of other kids, but didn’t show much interest in the kids themselves. Then they get older and other people became more interesting - but I could well imagine that would take longer if you had a ready made playmate to begin with.
I can’t even imagine how heavy the weight of the responsibility is to teach your kids how to be people in the world - but I suppose I’ll have to experience it myself in a few years once my bb is a toddler!
Quick q from a first time mom (due December): What is the most worthwhile investment item you made for your newborn? More than the brand or specs, I’m curious to know what personally made the item highly valuable to you/your lifestyle/newborn routine.
Living in a different country, it could be a cultural difference - but for all 3 of my kids I actually part-time worked at making sure that they expand their social circles. Starting at the age of 4 which was usually where they started expressing an interest or when other moms would start asking us to join playdates.
I would make it a point to talk to them about their friends - asking them who they'd like to invite over, who they play with at preschool, who their friends were, etc. - as I think the more they hear me talk about it, the more it makes them think about these things as top of mind (and it also ensures that I'm not pushing them into interactions with kids that they're less "into").
I was definitely on the initiating side of things with other moms and it was great, as usually I'd have a group of similarly minded moms to talk to and consult with.
Hi Leandra!
I was just tapping in my answer to this yesterday afternoon, telling you why I was here in the first place, that I’d been following you ever since your twins were born purely for that and an interest in fashion - Simultaneously eyeing up this vintage patent shoe on EBay (see Carel) - so I was writing about how my girls only ever work as a team and never formed separate friendships. They’re mostly happy and sociable little people, look out for those who need help, feel strongly about fairness (definitely a twin thing) but I have often wondered whether I’ve failed to help them to find friends. What I generally learned though in my eleven years with them is that I cannot control what they becoming and yes, setting an example (good and bad!) often has a bigger impact than telling and teaching them stuff. Now Covid came upon us and we were literally a trio for 5 months all day every day (poor Daddy didn’t always feel part of the gang) and so the twins relied more heavily than ever on each other (and me). I was alarmed then when their school report mentioned how they’re not reaching out to other children but knew that this could also just be down to them not being allowed to go to school here for most of last term (Germany).
So to get back to the beginning, my kids got home from school just as I was beginning to comment here, I put my phone down to hear about their day and what they burst out with walking through the door was “Mama, we ( note WE) have a new friend, no BEST friend (one twin corrects the other), please can she come over next week?”
My friend has twins. Sie sais thanks god, because now she knows whatever they are behaving it is Not her Responsability. 2 boys are as different as day and night. One is glad and another is angry in the same time. She came to conclusion, it is Not depending on her, how they feel. Its Individual and you can Not please 2 of them in the same way, you are only 1 Person. That takes a Lot of pressure from you when you realize they are indipendent human being.
I have a daughter of 8 which i seldom have an overview what is going on and a son of 6 and this is a little copy of myself- very easy to See through!
Conclusione : Set the Limits of no gos and rules which work always for both and the Rest you let it Happen.
I don't have kids, but I can say with absolute certainty that you are doing an exceptional job. dOn'T lEt ThE hAtErS sToP yOu FrOm DoInG yOuR tHaNg
I have two. A 7 year old and a 2.5 year old. I had my 7yr old when I was 25 and still single. I took him everywhere with me (I still do.). He was surrounded by adults (pseudo adults because who is an adult at 25? Not me...). To this day he still doesn’t really like kids his age. He can’t be bothered and thinks he is beyond them. In his defense he is and I was very much like this as a child. I just worry he is too worried about being grown and not worried enough about just being.
Mum of a 25-year old boy here. My anxiety was so bad as a young mother I never joined in with any other mothers during his school years. I rarely organised play dates and avoided other parents, that weren't already my friends like the plague. My son turned 25 yesterday and I have to say he is one of the most well adjusted, self-aware, caring human beings I know. He has loads of friends and a very big community spirit. I say don't sweat it- let it happen or not happen, it will all be OK.
Don’t worry!!! I think what your girls have is really precious - each other AND pretty terrific seeming parents too. Remember, you only need to be a good enough parent, and you’re already exceeding that. Keep going! Sent with love from a mum of three (good enough) grown up kids xx
My son has a best friend who is a year younger than him and they would follow each other everywhere and only play with each other at nursery. I think he found in her what your twins have, someone who you really like and who is always there to play with. She made him more confident and responsible, less shy - he would come out of his shell because he felt comfortable around her, and they would really look out for each other. Now they have been split as he has started a school. He is struggling without her and it’s breaking my heart, but I’m sure he’ll get better at playing with others as he gets older. It’s nice to hear others with older kids to say “don’t worry, it will work out” so that’s what I’m going with for now.
My husband is a twin. He and his brother were inseparable until they reached an age of understanding that they didn’t come as a unit. There was a lightbulb moment when they disagreed and went off to find other playmates. Wondering if your girls see themselves as a unit still and cannot conceive of separateness rn?
always good to encourage our kids to get outside of their comfort zone, but whatever you do, don't worry this phase away. It's beautiful and you will miss it (slash) be so thankful for it! My youngest used to scowl at kids or adults that would try to talk to her - all she needed was her siblings and parents. Now that she's in first grade, we hardly go anywhere without her asking if she can invite a friend! xo
My girls 5 and 7 don’t play with other kids. I often find myself forcing them to do so and then give up!! My 7 year old would rather have an imaginary horse 🐎 that she would take to school and be with that horse. 😳Once she is comfortable with her environment she manages chatting with one or two kids. I also found out that my kids are pretty okay being just themselves. Maybe that’s not always a bad thing. So I have learnt to let them be and do their thing. I guess I am learning the process of Being 😂 I think you are fabulous !!! Your kids are the most adorable
as a mom of 2 girls, I will tell you that the younger one ABSOLUTELY only wanted to be with her sister until she was about 7. she's 9 now and has a good group of friends that she loves, but her 13 yr old sister is still her "best friend" and the 9 yr old is hers and i'm pretty sure it will always be that way. i'm okay with that. :)
I don't think you should worry about them playing with other kids. Do you ever hang out with them separately? Maybe they would be more inclined to step out if the other twin was not there.
My daughter is 9 and beginning puberty, let's just say I'm not quite ready for all of this. My latest google search was 'clean romance novels', she is loving relationship drama and talking about boys. It's never dull and a learning experience for both of us. Trust that you are being the best mother you can be and take time for self care, hugs : )
Hey hey fellow mamas! I do not have twins, but I do have a mom friend that does have twins that are 5 and they stick to each other like glue! I think they will eventually gradually branch out but for their elementary years they’ll stick together! And hang on through toddlerdom! It’s rough and sometimes I don’t know how I got through it (mine are 6 & 7 now) and fight constantly!! Someone please tell me this fighting and bickering phase will end. Also my oldest will NOT pass clothing down to her sister. And can you imagine? I don’t remember it from my own sister but having to let go of your favorite clothes only to see them worn gleefully by your sister? Hard stuff, pain in the effin ass for me, but I also would be traumatized 🤣
As a twin with an identical twin sister and I went on to have a set of non identical boy twins now aged 12 and my twin sister went on to have a set of identical twin girls (I know what are the chances of that?) it’s a Twin thing and an age thing , as your children grow older , explore the world , mature, form relationships with others .
You also as a mother grow to be a mother and with a lot of affirmations ‘I am a good enough parent ‘ all shall be well. It’s a tough time being in the midst of it but once you get past this stage you wonder why you didn’t enjoy it more or relaxed into it and had let anxiety eat you up. My twin nieces have spent a quarter of their lives living through a pandemic - they are closer as they were not allowed out to make friend or play outside so there’s also that thrown into the mix !
So you know - My twin sister and I were in the same class at school between age 5-11 but then were separated during High school. My twins boys have had the same experience and now have a bigger friendship circle Xxx
I have friends with twins & triplets. They all start playing with other kids as they get to elementary school. But love hanging with their sibling the most . The set of twins go to the same university and are roommates.
My kids are all singletons. 21, 19 and 15.
This topic is definitely one to be had over a cocktail or 3 hour long coffee break lol
Your girls are in a developmentally appropriate stage of interaction called parallel play. At their age it is perfectly normal for them to play next to but not with others. They are probably interested in what those kids are doing but more interested in their own play. I believe that it’s around 3/4 that children become more engaged in games and play as adults think of it. In fact, parallel play is important for learning independence and observation skills. In other words, they are right where they are meant to be. Bravo, mom!
I have one of 8 and one of 7, she and he, they're so partners that hardly go out and play with friends. And she has this -difficult for me- way that she always prefers one friend rather than 2 o more. This couple only dynamic girlfriend habit is the thing I honestly dont like that much because I can see its difficult for her when there are more girls. And at the same time, sometimes its inevitable to compare myself to her and that makes me feel a bit bad. Conclusion: I struggle everyday with my own believes and manners in trying not to define my kids as i am or as I learned to be. Everyone is unique, our children too. Let us be patient and wait for their own times and needs. At least, thats what I need.
I have 8 year old twins and they didn’t really play with other kids until they were 4ish. Now they are very social and have friends, but also still like to spend time with each other. I think this past year has been hard for all kids, so the fact that they go to their person to play with is totally normal. Also every kid is different so while you seek advice remember, it’s really not one size fits all and your kids are probably totally normal and coming into their own at their own pace.
Typical twin behaviour :) they dont play with other kids.
I also feel lots of judgment as a mother of three, 2 are twins, like there is always someone watching, and in addition to my choices having to please me, my spouse and my kids and parents, this judgement eye also has to approve. Sometimes it feels like I care even more about the judgement eye. Why do I feel that? Is it just paranoia? I think it’s actually there on some level. Why is it there?
Twin here. It's a twin thing.
It's also just age. Around 6 they get pretty adept at making new friends to a greater or lesser extent, depending on their nature.
It sounds like you're honoring who your kiddos are as people (I have a very energetic but shy little guy). There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's a societal expectation that everyone has to be super duper social. As long as they find support navigating social scenarios if/when they want it sounds like you're being a great parent.
Kids usually don’t socialise together until they are 3. They may play in the same room but watch them and they are all playing separately. So seems totally normal
In my experience smaller kids tend to play in the proximity of other kids, but on their own agenda, rather than actually 'with' them. As for being a twin - imagine having someone as in tune with your play-based objectives as you are!
Maybe the other kids aren’t that interesting? I don’t have twins but I have 2 boys 15 months apart and a girl 2 years younger than my youngest son. They are all grown up now, but I remember when they were little, someone had to offer something that harmonized with their trio or brought an edge they liked, or else they had no interest. They’re successful adult humans with loads of friends and they had each a very deeply bonded best friend when they were little that they kept throughout childhood. So, maybe it is a twin thing and also maybe they have a high bar for who gets to share their time. ❤️